ABC News/Facebook/WMUR New Hampshire Democratic Debate Open Thread

Yawn (0.00 / 0)

This 15 minutes of commentary, commercial, and Facebook analysis is pretty boring.  Someone noted on the Hotline blog that over a 1/3 of those on Facebook participating in the polling about the debate thought Ron Paul won.  I think that means things are a bit skewed in terms of their other results...

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 19:57:55 PM CST

The wave? (0.00 / 0)

Stephanopolous just said that since Barack Obama was born and lived in Hawaii a bit that he should "ride the wave" since they have surfers and stuff down there.

Um, wtf?

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:02:09 PM CST

Shaky camera (0.00 / 0)

Looks like they just had a cameraman on stage to do the introductory shots...that was a bit awkward.

No time limits right now...

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:04:14 PM CST

Nuclear terrorism (0.00 / 0)

Obama's been a leader on nuclear issues in the Senate...or at least, as far as I know.  Good starting issue for him should the first question go to him.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:05:11 PM CST

About al-Qaeda and Pakistan (0.00 / 0)

And the first question goes to Obama...this is good for him.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:05:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Boom (0.00 / 0)

There is the proliferation reference...to his work with Dick Lugar and creating the next stage of Nunn-Lugar.  Quickly gets rid of the idea that he lacks experience...at least on this issue.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:07:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

OBL (0.00 / 0)

Edwards agrees with Obama: If we know where Osama Bin Laden is, we're gonna go get him.

Charlie Gibson is a bet dense and analyzing things too simply if he thinks that going in and getting OBL is the same thing as Bush's pre-emptive war doctrine.  Al-Qaeda attacked us, we have the obligation to fight back.  Pakistan says they're our ally, so they should be assisting us in this effort.

Richardson says diplomacy first, so it doesn't end up like Iraq.  I would have to think that if we knew where OBL was, we'd go in and take him out...and be diplomatic later.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:11:51 PM CST

Referencing the BC era (0.00 / 0)

Clinton just referenced her husband's 1998 attempted strike against OBL.  I don't know what to think about that reference.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:14:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Iraq (0.00 / 0)

17 minutes into the debate and Barack Obama is the first candidate to mention Iraq on the discussion of al-Qaeda, OBL, and international terrorism.  Wow.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:17:34 PM CST

Disturbing question (0.00 / 0)

Asking a hypothetical about the day after a nuke attack on a major US city.  This is a pretty dark and scary way of starting this debate.

And just as an aside: We're starting the debate away from domestic issues and focusing on foreign policy, which hasn't been a huge focus of Edwards' stump speech.  Is this going to hurt him?

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:20:08 PM CST

Richardson and securing nukes (0.00 / 0)

Richardson just talked about how he was the Sec. of Energy and worked with the Soviet Union and other states to secure loose nuclear weapons, etc.  How long until someone starts calling him out on the security breaches about nuclear secrets that happened at Los Alamos while he was in office?  I'm not saying it is his fault, it just undercuts his credibility.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:24:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Good discussion (0.00 / 0)

This isn't shaping up so much as a debate but as a forum.  And the Democrats sound quite substantive and more lively than the Republicans earlier tonight.

Essentially, we've got engaged candidates.  On the Republican side, they didn't seem that engaged in the discussion.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:23:21 PM CST

Social Security and other entitlements (0.00 / 0)

Will we get to hear Obama again say SS is in crisis?  He'd be repeating a GOP talking point, again.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:26:25 PM CST

Oy, a dialogue between Clinton and Obama (0.00 / 0)

Do we really need to waste 5 minutes during a national debate to hear Sens. Clinton and Obama going back and forth against each other?

We've got two other candidates and some pressing issues.  Let's talk about them.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:27:33 PM CST

Health care (0.00 / 0)

Obama again defends his health care plan, assuming that folks will buy in instead of mandating coverage.  Krugman's been right in his specific critiques about the plan...

Oooh, and Clinton just took the stage back.  Nice job.  This is getting good.

But let's make sure we're talking to the other candidates as well.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:31:10 PM CST

Finally (0.00 / 0)

Now we get to bring in John Edwards to finally talk about health care.

And now Edwards is going after Clinton as a "force of status quo" attacking he and Obama because they are the voice of change.

And he just called for a debate between the agents of change...wow.  I think he's still calling it a two-person race, leaving Clinton in the dust.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:35:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Clinton fires back (0.00 / 0)

Emphasizes S-Chip and other changes she's ALREADY done.  She's getting heated.  Wow oh wow.  She's frustrated.

That might be a good line.  Somebody who can deliver change and who has already done it.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:36:08 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Richardson makes a funny (0.00 / 0)

"I've been in hostage negotiations more civil than this."

Again, a call for a positive campaign.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:36:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Third subject: Iraq (0.00 / 0)

So, two foreign policy questions and one domestic question.

And now they're trying to make the case that the surge is working.  This could be an interesting debate.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:41:17 PM CST

Is the surge working? (0.00 / 0)

Clinton: Nope, still takes a "willful suspension of belief" to think that the surge is and/or will work.  The surge is just keeping the violence down not providing the means to create a political solution.

Richardson: "The policy is a massive failure."

Charlie Gibson is still trying to make the case that the surge has worked and that Democrats would have killed more soldiers by withdrawing.

Obama: Opposed the war from the start.  The violence is down, sure, but the surge is still wrong.

Edwards: It is the responsibility of the President to make policy generals.  I'd listen to my generals, but I'd still make my own policy.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:49:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Finally, a break (0.00 / 0)

First commercial break.  Three-minutes long.  I'm breaking as well.  I'll be back with more thoughts soon.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 20:53:39 PM CST

Tough question to HRC: Change vs. experience (0.00 / 0)

I think she's giving a decent response.  Best response to the charge that she's not a change candidate: "Having the first woman president is a big change!"

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:01:29 PM CST

Better line from Obama (0.00 / 0)

"We're all candidates of change compared to the Bush presidency."*

*Admittedly, a paraphrase.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:02:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

yes, having a woman president (0.00 / 0)

would be a big change. Unfortunately, going back to the Clinton cast of characters would not be a big change.

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by: desmoinesdem @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:09:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

thanks for the liveblog (0.00 / 0)

I missed this debate, but I see from your comments and those at MyDD that Edwards went after Clinton and basically didn't lay a glove on Obama. I don't think that's what I would have advised him to do, but I understand the strategy behind it. He is figuring that if he can push her into third place, she will be done.

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by: desmoinesdem @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:08:28 PM CST

The debate is still raging (0.00 / 0)

Flip on over to ABC and take a look.  Edwards is coming on strong now against corporate greed and his populist message.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:10:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Edwards talking about Senate accomplishments (0.00 / 0)

Patients Bill of Rights in the Senate, went to the House, and got it passed.

Shows why the battle for the presidency is personal for him.

Edwards is on fire right now.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:12:24 PM CST

On lobbyist restrictions (0.00 / 0)

Gibson just isn't being fair to Obama talking about the new lobbyist restrictions.  Sure there are loopholes.  It is all about how you read the damn bill...and lobbyists will always exploit the law and work around them as much as possible.  AT least the effort was made.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:14:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Clinton corrects (0.00 / 0)

And notes that the Patients Bill of Rights was killed by Pres. Bush.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:15:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Charlie Gibson's cynicism (0.00 / 0)

I'm sorry, but Gibson's cynicism towards the Democrats in this debate is horrible.  He, and his counterpart from the NH media, both seem to doubt and question the commitment and policies coming from the Democrats.

This wasn't there in the Republican debate.  Wtf is going on?

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:18:56 PM CST

Richardson again plays peacemaker (0.00 / 0)

He's not making himself known except as the guy who tries to bring the candidates from each other's throats.

Not the best way to promote one's candidacy and talk about issues...if you're just Mr. Nice Guy you limit yourself.  You've gotta stand out.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:23:30 PM CST

The 'R' Word (0.00 / 0)

And Clinton mentions "recession."  Brings the economy back into the picture.  Good job on her part.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:27:54 PM CST

Edwards reaches out to youth (0.00 / 0)

Mentions that college graduates are the most likely to the major group that will be impacted by 20-30 million jobs lost in the next decade.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:31:40 PM CST

Psuedo-live blog (0.00 / 0)

over at Political Fallout.

Boredom as a muse has inspired some satiric drivel...

Don't mean to carpetbag here, but I learned it from Hillary.

"For every political action, there is an equal but opposite satiric reaction." Political Fallout: http://www.political-fallout.blogspot.com/

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by: tmlindsey @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:32:36 PM CST

lol (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for that, TM.  I'll check it out.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:34:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Dodd Talk Clock (0.00 / 0)

Am I the only one that misses the talk clock that the Dodd campaign used to put out?

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:34:34 PM CST

Richardson is funny again (0.00 / 0)

Recognizes his SCOTUS mistake from the first one.

Edwards points out that his mistake was commenting on Clinton's jacket a while back.

Obama and Clinton don't note specifics, but highlight the great things Democrats are debating about and talking about.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:38:15 PM CST

The greatness of being the front-runner (0.00 / 0)

Obama gets the first and last word.

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by: Chris Woods @ Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 21:38:43 PM CST