Second Obama-Romney debate discussion thread

President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney face off in a town-hall meeting style debate tonight, starting at 8 pm central. I’ll update this post later, possibly after the replay on CNN. Meanwhile, any comments about tonight’s debate or the presidential campaign in general are welcome in this thread.

Iowa politics watchers may want to tune in to Iowa Public Television at 7 pm tonight for the first debate between Representative Dave Loebsack and John Archer, his GOP challenger in the second Congressional district. That event will wrap up just before the presidential town hall begins.

UPDATE: I caught fragments of the debate and will have to watch the whole replay later. Sounds like “binders full of women” will be the sound bite of the night; don’t wave good-bye to the gender gap just yet. I thought Obama handled the immigration question far better than Romney did too. Some clips and post-debate polls are after the jump.

Obama “zeroed in on undecided female voters” during the debate, portraying access to contraception covered by insurance as a “pocketbook issue for women and families all across the country.”

A question about energy policy led to one of the most heated exchanges. Obama reminded Romney that as governor of Massachusetts, he took pride in shutting down a coal plant that “kills.”

UPDATE: After watching the debate replay, I think Obama handled the question about gasoline prices well. During the summer of 2008, the average price of gasoline peaked at more than $4 per gallon in the U.S. It dropped sharply throughout the second half of 2008 as the economy tanked. Hat tip to Bradshaw for this helpful graph.

Arguing about the debate rules never looks good on television.

Moderator Candy Crowley stepped in to correct Romney when he claimed that it took the president 14 days to call the September 11 attack in Libya an “act of terror.” Here’s the transcript from Obama’s remarks on the morning of September 12.

The CBS quickie poll of about 500 undecided voters showed 37 percent thought Obama won, 30 percent thought Romney won, and 33 percent thought the debate was a tie. Before the debate, 71 percent of respondents thought Romney would do a better job hanling the economy, compared to 27 percent for Obama. After the debate, 65 percent of the same respondents said Romney would do better economy, compared to 34 percent of Obama. But 56 percent of respondents thought Obama would do more to help the middle class, compared to 43 percent for Romney.

Public Policy Polling’s survey of Colorado voters showed no statistically significant advantage for either Obama or Romney.

From CNN’s nationwide poll:

The CNN/ORC International survey indicates 46% of debate watches say Obama won the debate, while 39% say Romney fared better. The seven-point margin falls within the poll’s sampling error.

Meanwhile, 73% said Obama did better than expected, compared to 37% who said the same about Romney.

The CNN poll sample was a bit more Republican than the universe of voters nationwide.

The Boston Globe fact-checked a lot of statements quickly during the debate. “There were no women partners at Bain Capital during Romney’s tenure.”

LATER UPDATE: David Bernstein of the Boston Phoenix writes that the “binder full of women” story is not true.

What actually happened was that in 2002 — prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration — a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women’s Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.

They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.

I have written about this before, in various contexts; tonight I’ve checked with several people directly involved in the MassGAP effort who confirm that this history as I’ve just presented it is correct — and that Romney’s claim tonight, that he asked for such a study, is false.

LATER UPDATE: More debate fact checks: Obama mischaracterized Romney’s comments about Arizona law being a model for the country.

Romney was completely wrong to claim that Obama began his presidency with an “apology tour” through the Middle East. I’m sure he’ll say it again during the third debate, which will focus on foreign policy.

The Washington Post’s Glenn Kessler tallied a bunch of false or misleading statements by both candidates.

Frank Luntz’s focus group for Fox News showed a win for Romney, but CNN’s focus group of undecided voters in Ohio gave a slight edge to Obama; 15 of the participants said neither candidate won the debate, 14 said Obama won, and just 6 said Romney won. Among that group, Obama picked up seven votes to five for Romney.

The CNN focus group didn’t like a lot of the negative comments both candidates made during the debate. Dials went down when Obama talked about the “47 percent” comment at the end of debate, and Romney’s comments about Libya were a low point for him. The focus group liked some of Romney’s remarks about tax policy, and his high point with them came when he talked about bringing tax rates down.

The full transcript of the second debate is here. I think Romney did best at moments like this:

For me, I look at what’s happened in the last four years and say this has been a disappointment. We can do better than this. We don’t have to settle for, how many months, 43 months with unemployment above 8 percent, 23 million Americans struggling to find a good job right now.

There are 3.5 million more women living in poverty today than

when the president took office.

We don’t have to live like this. We can get this economy going

again. My five-point plan does it. Energy independence for North

America in five years. Opening up more trade, particularly in Latin America. Cracking down on China when they cheat. Getting us to a balanced budget. Fixing our training programs for our workers. And finally, championing small business.

Romney returned to that theme during his closing statement:

I understand that I can get this country on track again. We don’t have to settle for what we’re going through. We don’t have to settle for gasoline at four bucks. We don’t have to settle for unemployment at a chronically high level. We don’t have to settle for 47 million people on food stamps. We don’t have to settle for 50 percent of kids coming out of college not able to get work. We don’t have to settle for 23 million people struggling to find a good job.

If I become president, I’ll get America working again. I will

get us on track to a balanced budget. The president hasn’t. I will.

I’ll make sure we can reform Medicare and Social Security to preserve them for coming – coming generations. The president said he would. He didn’t.

Romney struggled to answer a question from a woman who is disappointed in Obama but fears a return to George W. Bush’s policies. During his rebuttal time, the president managed to make Romney out to be more right-wing than Bush:

You know, there are some things where Governor Romney is different from George Bush. George Bush didn’t propose turning Medicare into a voucher. George Bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform. He didn’t call for self-deportation.

George Bush never suggested that we eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood, so there are differences between Governor Romney and George Bush, but they’re not on economic policy. In some ways, he’s gone to a more extreme place when it comes to social policy. And I think that’s a mistake. That’s not how we’re going to move our economy forward.

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  • Six Weeks, Six Votes debate reaction

    Barack Obama and Mitt Romney clashed in a confrontational debate Tuesday night, a contest Obama won by forcefully addressing the terrorist strike that killed the American ambassador to Libya.

    As I predicted (gotta give myself props), Obama took personal responsibility for the incident despite Hillary Clinton’s statement to the contrary. “She works for me,” Obama said. “I’m the president and I’m always responsible.”

    He aimed his gaze directly at Romney and said, “The suggestion that…anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we’ve lost four of our own, governor, is offensive.” The bit, I have no doubt, was carefully orchestrated by Team Obama but was nonetheless devastatingly effective.

    Romney’s fiasco was exacerbated when moderator Candy Crowley fact-checked him on the spot, stating that Obama had labeled the embassy attack as an act of terror on the day after the attack – in opposition to the point Romney was trying to make.

    Obama’s body language was markedly different from the first encounter, no doubt the result of substantial retooling in the wake of his widely panned performance. He looked on as Romney spoke, with only the occasional grin to break his poker face.

    Too, Obama made more use of specific details this time around (even if they weren’t relevant) to emphasize his points. Young immigrants, he said, “had gone to school here, pledged allegiance to the flag.” On tax policy, he made effective use of the device again. “Four years ago I stood on a stage just like this one. Actually it was a town hall, and I said I would cut taxes for middle- class families, and that’s what I’ve done.” The details, while irrelevant, added to the authenticity of his statements.

    Obama, clearly responding to criticisms that he was insufficiently engaged in the first clash, came out swinging early with several attacks that felt canned and plaintive. “Governor Romney doesn’t have a five-point plan,” Obama complained. “He has a one-point plan. And that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules.” If the intent was to show Obama was serious about fighting, those early pokes fell flat.

    When the two clashed on energy policy, later goads were more effective. “What I’ve tried to do is be consistent,” Obama said. It was a veiled jab at the shift between the severely conservative Romney from the primaries to the moderate Mitt now running for president.

    Regarding gas prices (it would have been nice for moderator Crowley to state the obvious: that presidential policy has little effect on world oil prices), Obama again scored. “China, Germany, they’re making these investments [in renewable energy]. And I’m not going to cede those jobs of the future to those countries.” Obama showed a tough, defiant attitude about his energy policies and held Romney to account for his opposition to subsidies for renewable energy.

    The debate deteriorated into a barroom brawl at that point. Per the Washington Post transcript:

    OBAMA: [Oil] production is up.

    ROMNEY: – is down.

    OBAMA: No, it isn’t.

    ROMNEY: Production on government land of oil is down 14 percent.

    OBAMA: Governor –

    ROMNEY: And production on gas –

    (CROSSTALK)

    OBAMA: It’s just not true.

    It will be interesting to consult factcheck on that exchange, but I suspect the issue is about cherry picking of statistics on both sides and semantics. It is possible to cut oil permitting but produce more oil from federal lands simultaneously.

    It was another missed opportunity for Romney to clamp down on Obama for his veto of the Keystone XL pipeline, a project that would have created jobs but posed potential risks to the U.S.’s water supply. Had Romney pressed the attack home on Keystone, he could have more effectively critiqued Obama’s wavering concentration on jobs.

    Five times Romney used the word “crushed” to describe the middle class under the four years of the Obama presidency. It was an echo of Joe Biden describing the middle class as “buried” during the economic malaise that’s lingered since the 2008 stock market crash.

    Romney scored in the evening’s final exchange, a “tough question” from Barry Green: “What do believe is the biggest misperception that the American people have about you as a man and as a candidate?” Here was an opening for Romney to candidly explain his 47% remarks to a national audience. But he could only take partial advantage. His answer seemed an amalgamation of authentic speech doused liberally in safe, message-tested points. “I care about 100% of the American people,” he said, and he was believable.  He spoke of his time as a missionary and a pastor. Authentic.

    But Romney couldn’t escape the robotic cadence of the talking points. “I’ve spent my life in the private sector,” he said, a statement he’s made at least 40 times on camera. Had he avoided the repetition of those talking points and answere

    • I think the best case Romney made

      was “we don’t have to settle” for high unemployment, more people living in poverty, and so on. I completely disagree with his proposals for addressing those problems, but that’s the message he needs to hammer home. Unfortunately for him, the third debate will focus mostly on foreign policy.

      You are correct that the president’s policies have little impact on the price of gasoline.

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