South Carolina Republican presidential debate discussion thread

Jon Huntsman’s exit from the presidential race leaves five Republican candidates taking the stage tonight for a Fox News debate, co-sponsored by the Wall Street Journal and the South Carolina GOP.

I will update this post later with highlights. I don’t expect Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul, Rick Perry or Rick Santorum to do any real damage to Mitt Romney. Any comments about this debate or the GOP primary campaign are welcome in this thread.

UPDATE: I missed part of the debate, but some thoughts are after the jump.

My impression is that Newt has helped himself by opposing further unemployment benefits extensions and by vigorously defending his atrocious “food stamp president” rhetoric. The crowd loved his jobs plan for kids. Big applause line:

I believe every American of every background has been endowed by their creator with the right to pursue happiness, and if that makes liberals unhappy I’m gonna continue to find ways to help poor people learn how to get a job, learn how to get a better job, and learn some day how to own the job.

I thought Ron Paul’s answer to the question about military budget cuts was very strong, but I doubt it will go over well with the South Carolina Republican voters. I love how he pointed out that he twice as much in campaign contributions from active-duty military personnel as all the other candidates combined. They don’t want us to be involved in all these foreign wars, and they want us to focus our defense spending on our own country.

Mitt Romney seems to be playing not to lose. I laughed when he promised to release his tax return around April (that is, after he’ll have locked up the nomination).

Romney’s answer on the indefinite military detention powers in the NDAA was pretty despicable. He’s confident that neither Obama nor he would abuse this power. Al Qaeda people should not have any rights, he says. But so many of the people we’ve detained have no connection to Al Qaeda.

Perry seems mostly irrelevant to the discussion. I felt a little sorry for him when he got a question about Turkey’s membership in NATO during the foreign policy section of the debate. Predictably, he got big applause when he bashed the Obama administration’s criticism of Marines who urinated on Taliban corpses. Sad.

From what I’ve seen, Santorum is giving the “right” answer a lot of the time, but he’s not firing up the crowd the way Newt is.

When the candidates were asked about Social Security reform, Gingrich defended an optional privatized system, and Santorum went after him for “fiscal insanity.” For once, Santorum is right about something.

Late in the debate, Romney and Gingrich mixed it up over misleading super-PAC ads. Nice pivot by Romney: wouldn’t it be nice if we could make the super-PACs disappear by letting people give as much as they want to political campaigns?

He’s glossing over the fact that even if we allowed unlimited political contributions, some would prefer to funnel money through PACs that can run hit pieces, leaving candidates to focus on positive messaging.

I missed the early debate segment in which Romney defended his work for Bain Capital. It sounds like he did well with the audience there. Romney struggles when he gets a question he hasn’t prepped for:

Juan Williams asked if he still hunts “varmints.” Romney bobbles – says he’s been moose hunting. No, make that elk. Something with four legs. “I’m not the great hunter,” Romney admits.

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  • Thoughts

    Perry actually came to life and memorized his talking points, but it is far too late.

    I do think Obama made too lofty promises when it came to alleviating poverty in 2008.  I think Gingrich’s lines are harsh, but what Obama should do is use this as motivation to help get people back to work again.  

    • most families receiving food stamps

      include at least one wage-earner. Gingrich is misleading people about this issue. His policy to replace more adult wage-earners (like school janitors) with kids won’t do anything to improve unemployment and would further depress wages, which have already fallen substantially in real terms.

      Perry should have prepped more before the September debates. I wonder whether Cain and Gingrich would ever have surged if Perry had been able to string a few sentences together at that time.

      • Well put

        I think he’s using the janitor thing as a rhetorical example, I know I can have a better work ethic and the same can be said for a lot of people I know, but your point is correct.

        Perry was meant to be the anti-Romney in the race with all of that money behind him and the conservative rhetoric.  If Santorum or Gingrich had the fundraising connections that Perry has they would have been able to take a bigger run at Romney.  Perry has to be kicking himself, he was the perfect candidate.  All of his states rights rhetoric would have been enough for conservatives to overlook his ties to George W. Bush and other policy flaws.  

    • ModIADem,

      I do think Obama made too lofty promises when it came to alleviating poverty in 2008.

      an uncomfortable truth, but it’s not just Obama. It’s a Dem rites of passage to troll for votes in poverty-stricken rural/urban areas with lots of AA voters every four years. If you’re offended by “food stamps president,” you should be equally offended by the drive-by pandering.

      Much of what Newt said, would, in principle, be received enthusiastically in these areas, except they know that it’s just the other party trying to score points on their backs. Newt will do nothing for them except defund food stamps and other safety net programs while undermining organized labor. And Santorum’s marriage promotion is just ludicrous.  

      You just have to take a few moments to watch some of the reporting from the Corridor of Shame in 2008 to realize how bankrupt our political discussions are. Hungry children in crumbling buildings tend not to do well in school. Unsurprisingly, in the report on retention failure in Chicago is the detail that much of the failure is explained by lack of resources, and that the sub-group who underwent remedial instruction w/ revamped resources did far better. And really, the entire discussion is moot in countries where the resource gradient is reasonably equitable.

      There is nothing wrong with saying that we should want reliance on “food stamps” or “retention” to go to zero. And the Republicans are not 100% wrong that there are some who abuse safety net programs. I personally know of a few people who collected unemployment without making a serious effort to find a job. Not many, but it happens. Similarly, yes, there are some people who will need a kick in the pants to get serious about education. OTOH, claiming that “personal responsibility” will do the trick in the absence of resources is a prescription for failure. And most of the political arguments come down to these extremes: “personal responsibility” solutions vs “lifelines” that don’t address or solve core problems.  

      • So true

        I’m not offended by what Gingrich said, he just could have picked a nicer way to say things.  “Food stamp president” was going to be picked up as a racist phrase and he knew that.  

        I am offended by the way the left treats a guy like Artur Davis of Alabama who gets vilified for not voting the progressive line on every issue.  If a politician like Davis worked on getting a tax abatement for Google to move a call center into his district for example he would probably be called a corporate toad.

        I think people are tired of the trolling for votes as well, this is why West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky have been moving away from the Dems, people would give their vote and be given no hope in return.

        Could you imagine the vitriol on cable news if someone made any serious effort like Bobby Kennedy said he planned to do back in the 60s?  Ray LaHood (who I think is arguably the best member of the Obama cabinet) has to fight like hell just to get FAA re-authorization.  

        • "he knew that"

          I’ve been reading the howling from professional liberals who consistently miss the obvious.

          The SC GOP elected a “towelhead chick” governor. The mayor of SC’s capital city is African American. Reverse migration by African Americans from north to south is well-documented and led by college-educated AAs. And even if you missed these events and trends, hello: it’s Romney leading the GOP primary, not Gingrich.

          Gingrich had that sista-janitor & “food stamp president” teed up and ready to go, but as much as anything else, his target was liberal reaction. Nothing makes conservatives giddy like poking liberals in the eye with a stick.

          What hypocrisy to read lectures that the GOP pays an opportunity cost when it comes to insufficient pandering to Latinos, while in the same breath claiming that the GOP missed the opportunity to use the debate for “commitment to tolerance and diversity” (mish-mash from The Nation). Why should political calculus not be a factor when it comes to GOP relations with AA voters? AA vote is off the table this year, so if you follow the “Latino” logic, the GOP should not waste any time oozing phony sentiments.

          I was not offended either, because it was clear he was making a case to GOP primary voters about Obama’s policies, not stereotyping AAs for the heck of it. The reference to the Corridor of Shame made it obvious. He skillfully weaved together the conservative litany: liberals favor a dependency culture instead of personal responsibility; unions suck up all the resources, etc. What’s really happening here is a lot is gettng left off the table because the two sides are arguing at the margins of grains of truth. Yes, there are still some full-blown racists who probably enjoyed the contretemps, while there are self-satisfied liberals who rubber-stamp policies “good enough” for “them.” Pick your poison.

          Artur Davis made his own troubles. At the beginning of his political career he negotiated w/ Republicans to preserve programs important for his district. Can’t fault him for that. I didn’t care for his votes on social issues, but they were probably in line with his district. His run for gov, however, was nothing but a series of Souljah moments leading to AA voters in AL telling him to stick it up his ass, more or less. I don’t think the professional left was much of a factor here.

          I do find complaints about Boswell (for example) a little off. My impression is that he fluctuates around where you’d expect him to be in IA-03 with some excursions that pleasantly surprise and some that disappoint. On a related note, the disparity in fundraising is troublesome, but otherwise, I wouldn’t be quick to hand IA-03 to Latham, who very much strikes me as a lightweight. Boswell is pretty good at thinking on his feet.

          • Great points

            I think that the left did the “he’s not of you” among AA Democrats argument against Artur Davis, one of who?  He’s suppose to represent all people to the best of his ability.  It’s like those people such as Jesse Jackson Sr. criticizing Obama, implying Obama’s an uncle Tom.  

            When are AA Dems going to be allowed to take economically moderate to conservative positions without being called names or wild accusations about them not looking out for “their” people.  

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